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Roosters from the Han dinasty

 
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: Roosters from the Han dinasty Reply with quote

Terracota rooster statues from the Han dynasty in China (206 BC–220 AD).
Look like gamecocks?



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shamolady
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BattlePosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comb type suggests that Philippe.
A very ancient artifact.
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shamolady wrote:
The comb type suggests that Philippe.
A very ancient artifact.


I also think they are gamecocks. Only the selection of big roosters for cockfighting could produce so tough looking birds.

Imo the contribution of China in the creation of the oriental gamecocks is underestimated. The Chinese of the Han empire were wealthy and enterprising. They already made business with Vietnam, India, Persia and even the Roman empire.
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shamolady
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BattlePosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you're right Philippe.
We still don't get much information from China.
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I_like_rednailed_chicken
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BattlePosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks more like a meat- utility breed than gamecock
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I_like_rednailed_chicken wrote:
Looks more like a meat- utility breed than gamecock


Hi Ilrc,
Nice to read you again here!

I wonder if there were broilers in China 2,000 years ago. And if there were broilers, I wonder if they would have been proud to own a statue of broiler.

But sure there were plenty of gamecocks. A very informative book on this subject is the book written by Robert Joe Cutter, University of Wisconsin-Madison. The Brush and the Spur: Chinese Culture and the Cockfight.

He writes that in late Zhou and Han dinasty, cockfighting enthusiasts of cockfighting were to be found among the emperors, the nobility, high officials and powerful families.
https://books.google.be/books?id=LrSfaHjPIi4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+brush+and+the+spur&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjErYiK_73TAhVFsBQKHYpuCfgQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=the%20brush%20and%20the%20spur&f=false
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Godwin
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BattlePosted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philippe Do you have a larger photo of the white statue? that one seems more oriental.

Broilers (the fat meat chickens we eat today) are a recent development, did not exist in ancient times.
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Godwin wrote:
Philippe Do you have a larger photo of the white statue? that one seems more oriental.


Hi Godwin,

This is a photo for a public auction. This statue was sold for 505 euros.
https://encheres.catawiki.eu/kavels/10461521-chinese-terracota-rooster-statue-from-the-han-dynasty-49-cm
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the oldest recorded cockfighting cheating took place in the province of Lu in China in 517 BC. Confucius was a witness.

The match was held between two rival clans, the duke of Chao and the baron Ping. During the contest, an argument erupted between the two men. Chao had put mustard on his cock's wings in order to blind his opponent. However Ping had also cheated, putting metal on his cock's spurs. The match ultimately led to a war!
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shamolady
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BattlePosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're a mine of interesting information Philippe!
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Julia! However all the credit goes to mr Google.

By the way, he helped me to find a video on the Chinese gamecocks, mainly on the Luxi gamecock. It's considered a national monument of China since 2007. And it comes from the city of Shandong in the southwestern part of China.
The farm operated by Gao Xiang has been named the national protection farm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP2a2n7Ndro
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Godwin
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BattlePosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been waiting for information on Chinese fighting cocks for a long time. They seem to be naked heel fighters like the Japanese. However the quality of fowl shown on this video is low. In fact the Dom shown seems to be about to run. Also the 12 year old "hen" shown at 14:38 in a stag.
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Godwin wrote:
I've been waiting for information on Chinese fighting cocks for a long time. They seem to be naked heel fighters like the Japanese. However the quality of fowl shown on this video is low. In fact the Dom shown seems to be about to run. Also the 12 year old "hen" shown at 14:38 in a stag.


I agree with you: the quality of the Luxi gamecocks is very low. They look and act like mongrels (gamefowl crossed with barnyard fowl).
I guess the communism did not allow the cockers to make the right selection.

About the hen, may be it's really a hen who has been masculanised year after year. Such old hens can start crowing and stop laying eggs.

It seems that the Chinese cockers realized that their level was low and imported gadons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFsYH9Ef6v0

Everything can quickly progress a great deal in China. I could guess they will soon import also gamecocks from Taiwan, Thailand and Japan.
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hung nguyen
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BattlePosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Godwin wrote:
I've been waiting for information on Chinese fighting cocks for a long time. They seem to be naked heel fighters like the Japanese. However the quality of fowl shown on this video is low. In fact the Dom shown seems to be about to run. Also the 12 year old "hen" shown at 14:38 in a stag.

In the last 20 yrs, many GaNoi Don were purchased by the Chinese and brought to China. Perhaps 20% of the best GaNoi Don produced in central Vietnam ended up on China every year. These buyers paid high prices to make sure they had good birds. So my guess is they play very serious in their area
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the last 20 yrs, many GaNoi Don were purchased by the Chinese and brought to China. Perhaps 20% of the best GaNoi Don produced in central Vietnam ended up on China every year. These buyers paid high prices to make sure they had good birds. So my guess is they play very serious in their area[/quote]

Do they play their gadons with the taped spurs?

They are also fond of racing pigeons. It's told that they import 20,000 pigeons a year from Belgium. The most expensive one to China in a public sale was 280,000 u$. There are also a lot of private sales. And for such sales, the prices are secrete.
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the Chinese cockers import birds from Taiwan.
This is a video of a sparring test in Taiwan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV6_4Irue3Y

Around 1980, a Taiwan breeder had come to Belgium to buy expensive racing pigeons. He had brought gamefowl eggs. That strain quickly became famous. They were very game, very tough, very endurant with ko kicks. Without a doubt the best fighters in natural spurs in their weight category (11-12 lbs).
The shamo imports in Belgium were lighter (8-10 lbs).

By the way, I always thought those Taiwan birds were actually shamos. They looked like shamos, they fought like shamos. The pits and the rules are like in Japan. The reason can be simple: Taiwan was occupied by Japan from 1890 to 1945.
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more action in Taiwan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODq76nEFXAY
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philippe
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BattlePosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cockfighting has also been banned in Taiwan.
In the fight, city vs country, the Urban side won again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtXA7qxyz4Q
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